Emm Gryner

Summer and Winter

Emm Gryner seems to move almost under the radar in Canadian music. It is difficult to understand why. The piano-driven sound of her work is distinctive, and her albums have been consistently strong over nearly fifteen years. One explanation is that most of her songs have been released on her own record label, Dead Daisy Records, currently operated in collaboration with Toronto musician Royal Wood, and there are limits to what a small label can do. “We can’t really conquer the world with the label,” she smiles, “but we can help a little bit.” She has been determined also to work in her own way and at her preferred pace, allowing time for various outside projects that attract her interest. For example, she recently appeared in the film One Week with fellow musicians Gord Downie and Joel Plaskett.

Many listeners were introduced to Gryner when her second album, The Original Leap Year, released on Dead Daisy, attracted significant attention in 1997. That led to a recording contract with Mercury Records, an arrangement that yielded her third album, Public, featuring the memorable song ‘Summerlong’, a radio hit in Canada. The album was the first that Gryner had prepared for a major label, and also turned out to be the last. When Universal Music acquired Mercury, Gryner was dropped from the roster. She returned to putting out music on her own label.

In an interview before her performance at The Studio at Hamilton Place in Hamilton, Ontario, Gryner allowed herself to glance back for a moment. “I think it was really looked down on when I got dropped. People thought, ‘oh well, it’s over for her’.” The Forest, Ontario native proved resilient. Ultimately she found satisfaction in the freedom that comes from being in control of her own recording and touring schedule. “These days, when I hear that someone gets dropped, I think ‘oh, what a relief for them’, because there is so much that can go wrong with a label. My goals have always been to reach people in a meaningful way, and hopefully by word-of-mouth. I still live by that.”

There have been a number of high points for Gryner over the years. She has been nominated for three Juno awards. Nelly Furtado mentioned her album, Science Fair, as one of the albums that she would most want to have on a deserted island. David Bowie called Gryner one of his favourite Canadian recording artists, and for a spell she sang and played keyboards in Bowie’s band. Most interesting perhaps is that U2 lead singer Bono referred to ‘Almighty Love’, a song from Gryner’s 2006 release The Summer of High Hopes, as one of the six songs from the past twenty years that he wished he had written himself! If one is looking to dip into her back catalogue, The Summer of High Hopes is a great place to start. In addition to ‘Almighty Love’, it includes one of the more haunting songs that she has penned, ‘Blackwinged Bird’.



The February 2009 release of her eleventh album, Goddess, has demonstrated once again that Gryner is forging ahead to craft compelling songs. ‘Leftover Love’, ‘Die Evergreen’, and ‘Young as the Night’ are standout tracks. There is slightly less emphasis on the piano this time out. A personal album, it is full of moments of frustration and desertion. There is an iciness to some of the lyrics that matches the recurring imagery in the songs of the harsh Canadian climate. The album is perhaps best appreciated when there is a bit of frost on the windows.

During the concert in Hamilton, Gryner showed off her sense of humour, laughing about the bad luck that she has had at shows in Hamilton in the past, including one time when she lost her voice outright. She peppered her set with songs from Goddess, and her performance of ‘Almighty Love’ bordered on the sublime.

In early November, Emm Gryner will be on stage in the Maritimes for a number of shows, and on December 14th she is playing a benefit concert for War Child Canada with Luke Doucet at the Dakota Tavern in Toronto.

CI: In a number of songs on Goddess, the harshness of the Canadian climate comes through in the lyrics, and even in the photography on the album cover. It seems to match some of the ideas in the lyrics, where there is coldness between certain characters in the songs. Did you consciously decide to use that harsh Canadian landscape as the scenery for the songs?

EG: I guess. I don’t know. A few of the songs were written initially, and I built the album around them. I knew that those images were there. You kind of have to be Canadian, or from a climate like this, to understand that, when it comes around to be March, you really can suffer from vitamin D deprivation! I guess the album has a lot of those emotional themes as well, being deprived of comfort or acceptance, that kind of thing.

CI: In a song like ‘Empty Hole’ especially, which has a darker edge and a measure of angst to it too, I think, is that feeling of coldness tied up at all with your own feelings about Canadian arts in general? You have that line in there about ‘the government on my piano bench’, and that stuck out to me.

EG: Not really. It’s not really a commentary on that as much as just, I think, a lot of people find fighting government or corporations a very difficult thing to do, as an individual. Everyone has been on the phone with someone and you just can’t get an answer or something – that’s not what that lyric is about. There is kind of a feeling of hopelessness when your – I don’t know, I suppose sometimes people with proper jobs, or government jobs, don’t see the legitimacy of what musicians do, or writers do, or artists do. Years and years ago it was really looked down on to be an actor, for example, or even to be female and be a musician. There is just a little bit of that, but again it’s a metaphor for a larger emotional cavern, I guess.

CI: On your website I notice that you make mention in the news of songs that are being picked up on certain radio programs and stations. At the end of August, I had the chance to talk to Joel Plaskett, and we got into this discussion of Canadian radio. He sort of expressed his frustration that it took people outside of our country to grant legitimacy to a Canadian artist in order for Canadian radio stations to pick them up. You’ve had success outside Canada, performed and sold records in the U.S. and in Ireland particularly. What has your experience been on the question of getting on radio in this country?

EG: I have had moderate success with that, but sort of for varying reasons. My record deal that I signed ten years ago, the only one that I ever did – I guess it was longer than that now – it was a U.S. deal. I did find that, you know, it would be silly for a Canadian station not to play a Canadian artist when they’re getting attention somewhere else, so I do understand why that happens.

Yeah, I don’t know. That’s a hard one! I’ve actually kind of been a little bit lucky, where people will listen to it, and if they like it, they’ll play it – hopefully. I would never see myself being played on a station that plays Beyoncé and stuff like that, but I’ve been really lucky where I have got a little commercial airplay, and then the CBC airplay as well. I do see myself as someone that can fit into both.

CI: It’s an interesting comment about, you know, ten years ago or more, when you were just getting into the business in the mid-to-late nineties, that was sort of the beginning of the end of the dominance of large music companies with the introduction of digital music. Was there any point along the way where you sat down and sort of thought, okay, how do I want to play this? How do I want to distribute my music, ideally, given all the new options?

EG: To be honest, there was never really a conscious ‘let’s make a game plan because the world is changing’ sort of thing. I always felt that, in some ways, I was lucky because I made some choices that put me ahead of that game a little bit. I started Dead Daisy in 1996, and it’s not a Six Shooter or anywhere near like an Arts and Crafts label. It’s just basically me, and a community of artists. But I was kind of doing the slaving-away and touring in your car and playing house concerts and making your own records, long before there were all these avenues for people to do it. I mean, people were doing it long before me, too, but I just mean before it became the norm. I think it was really looked down on when I got dropped [from the major record label]. People thought, ‘oh well, it’s over for her’. These days, when I hear that someone gets dropped, I think ‘oh, what a relief for them’, because there is so much that can go wrong with a label. My goals have always been to reach people in a meaningful way, and hopefully by word-of-mouth. I still live by that.

CI: Let me ask you about acting for a moment. I saw One Week recently. I knew a bit about the movie going in, but none of the details, and it’s fun to watch Gord Downie, Joel Plaskett, and you show up along the trip that the central character takes. How did that come about for you, and what are your hopes as far as acting in more films?

EG: I was in a video by Neverending White Lights. Someone who had seen that recommended me to be in the film. They were looking for a musician who could act. I didn’t know that I really – actually, I had a bunch of really disastrous auditions leading up to it, so I wasn’t sure that I would make the cut! But I was in L.A. making an album and I did a screen test for the movie in someone’s garage, and I actually think it really helped me because I’m not so good when there is a panel of director-producer types judging me. But I think that I’m okay if I have a little time on my own with the part because I’m not a trained actor. I don’t really know all the ins and outs of acting. I just tried it. The character is really not that far from myself, I guess, so it was fairly easy. And what a great story to be in for my first thing!

I don’t really have any other aspirations to act. I suppose I would if it was something really interesting, but I find it really hard to tell a story without music. That’s why I would just rather do music. Plus, it’s less work to do music. It’s so much work to act. You’ve got to get up early!

CI: On your website I notice that you are keeping up a video tour diary. Is that something new for you this time around? Have you done that in the past?

EG: My friend, who is selling merch, brought it up as an idea. I could never do it myself because I don’t ever have time. It’s fun. I like to follow people that way, too.

CI: Tonight you’re sharing the stage with Royal Wood, but on most of the shows on this tour you have had a guy named Darren Eedens open the show. You met him when you were the artist-in-residence at Fanshawe College. That’s a neat thing. How did that come about for you at Fanshawe?

EG: One of the teachers asked me to come and sit with students for an hour per student, for eight or nine hours a day, and just talk to them about music. My experience, and my advice for them and stuff – it was really challenging, but I got to hear a lot of great music. I heard Darren’s music and thought that he was really unique, an amazing guitar player too. He is actually going to come and play on a couple songs tonight. He’s sort of part of the show now. It’s great to be inspired by the kids!

CI: This was something that came about because you went to Fanshawe?

EG: I did. I went there for Music Industry Arts. I graduated a really long time ago!

CI: Were you there for a while as the artist-in-residence?

EG: Just a week, and it was long enough [laughs].

CI: You mentioned Dead Daisy Records earlier. As the force behind that, when you are finding artists for that label, what are you looking for?

EG: Really it is just songs and a personality that fits with everyone. It’s not just my label anymore. It’s Royal’s too. Royal brought John Southworth to the label. His record is coming out October 12th. There’re a few other people that I would like to put out as well, but it’s also about working hard. Royal works really, really hard, and has a team of people that work with him. It doesn’t really work unless – you know, I never like to work with people who feel entitled to things, because then it never really works. Everyone has to pitch in and work. I can kind of connect people with things, and give them distribution and that sort of thing, but that’s about where it ends with Dead Daisy. We can’t really conquer the world with the label, but we can help a little bit.

CI: Just out of curiosity, I noticed online that, in the past in concert, you have done a cover version of the Michael Jackson song Beat It. Since he died, have you brought that out again, or was that just a one-off for you?

EG: No, and the danger of YouTube is that you can kind of police it, but people will just put stuff up there. Someone just decided that that was going to go up. It was this freaky show that I did in Massachusetts where I played the whole Thriller album, and for some reason that song made it to YouTube. It’s like the most seen YouTube of mine – super annoying! I mean, it’s a good cover or whatever, but I’ve never played it since, and I think that was twelve years ago or something.

CI: Really? So it’s just something that has digitally trailed you around.

EG: It’s so interesting how, really, you could play a show to five people and that could reach millions because of YouTube. I think it’s changed a lot of the way people perform. I just toured with this band A-Camp. It’s Nina from the Cardigans, it’s her solo project, and she said, you know, she puts on an amazing show every time because - I mean, I guess you should anyway – the thought is that this stuff goes up online and it’s there forever. You’ve got to watch what you do now. You can’t get away with murder anymore!

CI: One last thing. As I listed to the album, the song, maybe the catchiest song, the one that stood out to me first of all, is the one called ‘Leftover Love’. I thought it was a bit of a slippery song because you’re tracing how a relationship that has come to an end is still unfinished; it can impact life down the road. As a songwriter, how do you approach writing love songs, relationship songs, and try to come at them from an angle that is distinct? There are so many, and the ground has been covered a lot.

EG: Yeah, I don’t really know that anything is distinct anymore. I know that there is already a song called ‘Leftover Love’. I think it’s just maybe trying to not really recycle the same old ideas, but at the same time, people love those same old ideas, you know? For me, it’s less about maybe consciously trying to be unique, and maybe just saying what it is that I feel and hoping that it’s not too boring.

Date of Interview: 09/25/2009
Location: The Studio at Hamilton Place, Hamilton, ON
Link: www.emmgryner.com